I beieve that in my child's generation they will learn some key and lock something about the DNA helix that will enable scientists to halt the aging process-I guess at whatever age the person is.
My luck they will accomplish that when I am 82-eternity at 82 y.o.?
My luck they will accomplish that when I am 82-eternity at 82 y.o.?
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, April 16, 2008 - 12:34 AMComing at this from a life of no serious scientific scrutiny or messing about with physiology, I believe that it is a scientific impossibility for the body to biologically regress without serious distress.
The window of possibility is open given the propensity of our minds to continuously engineer and discover new things, but it sounds messy.
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, April 16, 2008 - 10:32 AMThe idea has been considered for transfer consciousness into some cybernetic brain and body which can be replaced. The same might be true of eventually perfecting cloning that doesn’t create a copy that is weaker then the original and then transfer consciousness into each new brain and biological body. Currently copies still prove to be weaker, unless you take a body, grow it in a lab and have your consciousness take over the body/brain without loss of memory putting all the neural chemical brain networks in place. This is assuming that we are only ego chemicals and the concept of spirit and the after life is wishful egotistical thinking. Still, nothing will ever last forever in the known universe, so transferring consciousness and/or biological or cybernetic brains is the only shot.
Then the last question is in the movie highland, who wants to live forever, and would it really be that great? Assuming an infinite universe with infinite dimensions and worlds that a spirit might travel to, and/or just a chance to return to the presence of God might be lost by such a wishful eternal stay on this dying planet.
I personally just wish I had more time to just be, so that perceptually my 82 years dont go by like they were only 30 years long. I want to kick back on the beach of life, take a walk on the road of life enjoying the journey without care of the destination. Then I am more then happy to die so that I stop sucking up our children future. -
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Re: The End of Death
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 8:04 AMconsidering that we still dont really know where, or even what consciousness is, it might be a trick to transfer it someplace yes?
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Re: The End of Death
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 5:01 PMUntil we perfect space travel, immortality would mean no more children. Or at least severe limitations on the number of children people can have... which we know doesn't work - it's been tried in China and caused big big problems... In the circles of the US science (fiction?) community there's been talk of colonizing Mars and the like because they believe we can't curb our population growth... But ya know, by now we were supposed to all have flying cars too... given that the only flying car currently in any kind of production or even preproduction that I know of is the Molar SkyCar and that's been in development for like 50yrs, costs a cool million and the company was sued by the government for fraud... Doesn't inspire me with huge confidence that we'll have a dozen or so planetary colonies in our solar system to export our kids to by 2060. I could be wrong of course... heck, who knows, maybe a technological singularity (an artificial intelligence with more computational power than the entire human species for less than the cost of a new plasma TV) will solve those problems. :) -
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Re: The End of Death
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 8:38 AMIn Holland we face a population which will be deminishing because people tend to have fewer children. The growth of a population is not managed by a government, but more by standard of living and a social system which allows people to not have to have children of their own to take care of them when they grow old. So unlimited population growth might not be the problem with immortality. -
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Re: The End of Death
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 8:58 AMWell population growth is a global problem, so the handful of small regions where population is declining aren't really evidence that it's not a problem. I'm sure the culture of Holland is different than it is in other regions, and may not be as child-centric as some. Though in many cultures, the drive to have children has very little (if anything) to do with being taken care of when you grow old. I certainly don't see that as being a driving force behind Spanish families having lots of children. The point being that in order for people to be immortal, they would be forced to stop having children (considerably different than being allowed to stop), and I don't see that being likely to happen on a global scale. -
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Re: The End of Death
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 9:09 AMOr for that matter gay couples are evidence that people generally don't need the society/culture to be structured in any particular way to choose to not have children. Gay couples generally end up having tons of cash to spend on whatever they want because they're not spending it on the necessities of raising children, and they have more time to work longer hours if thats what they want to do to save more money. So it's very easy for a typical gay couple to save up massive amounts of money to put toward their retirement. I imagine the same would be true of any heterosexual couple who simply chose not to have children. Which means that there's not a significant need for couples in any given region to have children in order to support them in their old age. I'm something of an exception or I would be if I didn't already have kids who live with their mother in Texas, because I have Asperger's Syndrome and like a lot of people with AS I've had a very difficult time keeping jobs or getting jobs that pay me what I'm worth.
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Re: The End of Death
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 7:50 AMyeah, they dont go after people for smoking pot, they stay out of people bedrooms.
Holland is very progressive and a smart people.
While population growth is a problem for the uneducated parts of the world, I wish Hollan would have more children, guess they are too happy to ruin it with too many children. -
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 11:42 AMWell, perhaps smoking pot causes infertility... :-)
Do not think that everyone in Holland smokes pot. Personal freedom however is very important in the Netherlands. Unfortunately the last couple of years the country has turned a little less progressive. Although we do have a high standard of living and are among the tallest people and do have a high life expectancy, that does not mean we are in general more happy than other people. Apart from progressive and freedom loving most dutch are also very good at complaining. (as you might tell from what i just wrote. :-) -
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 6:43 PMMichel,
I have a lot of respect for your country, and wish we Americans would learn a thing or two.
I dont think you all smoke pot, I think, its a non issue because you dont make it a big deal.
I am sorry to hear that the Netherlands has turned less progressive.
My father was once honored by your king and queen for excellence in education, and he was always very proud of that, and spoke highly of your country.
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 11:38 AMIf I'm correct there are even a number of scientific studies that show a real clear correlation between the standard of living of a country and the number of children per person/couple.
I don't think people can be forced to stop having children, not without seriously invading their personal freedom and body. Apart from standard of living, religion or beliefs can also play a big role in the wish for children. -
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 3:17 PMMy suspicion is that the standard of living correlation is actually an education correlation more than anything else... I know that there have been studies that show that people who have more secondary education are less likely to have kids ... i.e. career oriented people... of course, part of the problem with all of these studies is that just by their nature they have to be either after the fact studies or longitudinal and it's tough to get good data that can be regression tested to rule out hidden x-factors. For example, even in my own hypothesis that the standard of living correlation really boils down to education, it's possible that having children shortly after high-school (or university) reduces the chances of a person completing a college degree because of the burdens of parenthood... if that's true, then perhaps the flow of cause and effect might actually be reversed and gay couples who have no children and are able to devote all that extra time to their secondary education and careers are skewing the results of some of those studies. But really on a gut level I just feel it's unlikely that you could reduce the chances that people would have kids by taking some of what I perceive to be very culturally child-centric families (central & south American as an example) and transplanting them into an environment with a higher standard of living. My gut says their drive to have kids is very culturally driven and likely to take a few generations to effect much change (similar to say Americans' resistance to the idea of gay marriage, which is slowly waning because each new generation finds homosexuality somewhat less threatening -- was hearing some folks talk about that on NPR on my drive home from work today). -
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, May 28, 2008 - 6:46 PMyes, more education, less sex - its been proven.
sad but true.
Plus if your educated, you realize that having more then two kids is a really difficult task in life.
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Re: The End of Death
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 7:30 PM> yes, more education, less sex - its been proven.
Let's be clear on this ... unprotected sex.
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Re: The End of Death
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:49 PMOk, bear with me, please. Energy cannot be created or destroyed, right? That's a "law of the universe?" So, LIFE is a sort of energy, right? We talk about 'vitality' (which means life, vital-life), some people have more than others. So, can LIFE, by this conceptualization, ever be created or destroyed?
Nah, I don't think so. It goes on, and mass mind is awareness of the whole universe, which is alive. So genetic immortality, well, it would be changing consciousness through time, but you'd be stuck in a human body. if your children figured out how to manipulate the acids that digest the telemeres on the ends of DNA strands, which has been found to be the ultimate cause of aging, cool.
But what about being something else? We're just a part of a biosphere on earth while we're alive. What is life? Maybe the whole planet is alive? What about becoming the life of a planet upon checkin' out of the life evident in your human body? The WHOLE consciousness of a PLANET?! Or, the UNIVERSE?
Seriously, what is it that holds together this whole organism that is YOU, and where does it go when you die? Because, we do, and THAT (thing I was just referring to) CANNOT be created or destroyed: it's the law.
I'm not trying to be morbid.
I just don't want to view death as something really terrible and nasty: an ultimate end, of my awesomeness.
I think my awesomeness exists because i got it from somewhere: I didn't just make it up.
I am a part of a whole. A functioning organelle.
So, it'd be neat if the human race accomplished that experiment: was successful in stretching the longevity of a human beyond the 80 some-odd years they're almost guarenteed by modern medicine. Then we could take the time to learn more stuff: like chinese, and how to be really good at chess, and really listen to people when they are talking to us: because we have all the time in the world. We have FOREVER.
But maybe we do have forever.
It just seems like we never don't.
(the poor grammer was intentional) -
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Re: The End of Death
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 1:47 PMI with you Anna.
But your own being, who you are, may transfer to energy, but that doesnt mean it will know the things you know now, it might just be energy and nothing else.
If matter enters a black hole, it transforms into pure energy and it no longer is that matter from before.
I doubt, but am hopeful, that the ego and or spirit will exist as an individual after death. Its the ego that wants to exist into eternity, the universe has no need I imagine for such lofty hopes of the ego.
The again I am someone who know he knows nothing, so dont listen to me... :)
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Re: The End of Death
Mon, May 19, 2008 - 2:16 PMthere is a great presentation about the possibility of eternal life on Ted.org: www.ted.com/talks/view/id/39. It is part of a set of presentations about the subject: www.ted.com/index.php/themes/view/id/44
Michel
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Re: The End of Death
Thu, May 29, 2008 - 2:32 AM
Linda Goodman's Star Signs (1987) Chapter 9 Physical Immortality
a thought transformation, leading to the achievement of cell regeneration
"We fear acid rain and the holes being torn in the Earth's ozone layer, endangered species and a multitude of acts of violence and cruely to Mother Earth and her creatures. Yet, the belief that death is inevitable --- that death is beyond an individual's control --- is still the biggest killer of all,"
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Re: The End of Death
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 7:00 AMMy thought regarding the potential to hold off death is that it is a terribly frightful idea. I couldn't imagine a world in which people never grew old. I think even with all the time in the world that there would still be a huge number of people unsatisfied and always wishing they were younger. If it's not 22 then it's 82 and if not that it's something like 102 and people a still want more it's just human nature.
The other concern with living for an indefinate period would be the toll it would take on our already exhausted natural resources. In many regions of the world there is considerable overpopulation and slowed or halted aging would exacerbate this.
Finally, without the risk of death, what fun is living?